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Poster: Capt. Cook Date: Feb 26, 2011 4:53pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Did Jerry Like The JGB Better Than The GD?

I have heard reports and ugly rumours from the mars hotel that Jerry may have preferred the Garcia Band to the Real Thing. Smells like BS to me as Mr. Tell Likes to say and so my question is - is there any year where Jerry played more solo gigs than GD gigs...

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Poster: JB Date: Feb 26, 2011 5:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Did Jerry Like The JGB Better Than The GD?

it seemed to me that he had much more energy with the jgb 91-95 than he did with the dead at that time. not as much nodding off, forgetting words, missing solos etc. that being said if im listening to jgb these wouldn't be the years i'd go to. thought there were some new songs played in this time that were pretty good. i dont know about liking it better but the whole thing was just more laid back than a dead show.
http://www.jerryradio.com/downloads/JGB-89-05-20-MP3/

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Feb 26, 2011 5:34pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Did Jerry Like The JGB Better Than The GD?

I would imagine there was more than one night where sitting through another Minglewood, Red Rooster, or Lost Sailor in a cavernous arena made him prefer the smaller, more intimate setting of a JGB show and tune.

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: Feb 26, 2011 10:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Did Jerry Like The JGB Better Than The GD?

Why would that smell like BS? God help us all if Jerry actually derived more pleasure from anyone or anything other than the almighty, omnipotent Grateful Dead.

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Feb 26, 2011 6:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Did Jerry Like The JGB Better Than The GD?

Not really. Or more accurately, he liked different things about each band. The Dead was much more challenging for him (musically and personally); but he recognized it as kind of a 'larger force' that he couldn't escape from, and felt very responsible for keeping it going. I don't think he was quite so committed to any of his solo commitments, though he may have enjoyed them more.

Your question about # of shows per year is bizarre - in the mid-'70s (perhaps the Dead's best years), Garcia was playing over twice as many shows 'on the side' as he was with the Dead. Up to the mid-'80s the Dead and the JGB stayed about even - but by the '90s (when people say he was more interested in the JGB), the JGB played less than half the shows the Dead did. (Of course, by that time a lot of the scheduling was determined by financial & physical reasons...)

Here's the breakdown (comparing year totals from setlists.net and thejerrysite) - keep in mind that the 'solo' figures are sometimes inflated by including every little side-appearance Jerry did. Also, I don't include figures up to '71 because Jerry was in the NRPS, and also jamming at lots of weekly shows at the Matrix we don't even know about, so it's impossible to say how much he was playing 'on the side'; but by 1970 it was already quite a bit.

NUMBER OF SHOWS PER YEAR -
YEAR - DEAD - SIDE-BANDS
1972 .... 85 .... 55
1973 .... 72 .... 103
1974 .... 40 .... 122
1975 .... 4 ...... 115
1976 .... 41 .... 80
1977 .... 60 .... 63
1978 .... 82 .... 43
1979 .... 76 .... 70
1980 .... 87 .... 44
1981 .... 86 .... 77
1982 .... 62 .... 84
1983 .... 66 .... 75
1984 .... 64 .... 62
1985 .... 71 .... 30
1986 .... 46 .... 40
1987 .... 86 .... 51
1988 .... 80 .... 27
1989 .... 73 .... 31
1990 .... 74 .... 29
1991 .... 77 .... 35
1992 .... 55 .... 24
1993 .... 81 .... 43
1994 .... 85 .... 34
1995 .... 47 .... 16

This post was modified by light into ashes on 2011-02-27 02:02:27

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Feb 26, 2011 5:56pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Did Jerry Like The JGB Better Than The GD?

Do you really think it is bizarre that Jerry played more non-Dead shows in '74-'76 than Dead shows? I think that would have been pretty obvious given the lack of Dead shows from 10/74 - 6/76. Then throw in all the different types of projects Jerry was doing during this era (OAITW, JGB, LOM).

I agree that the '90s data is a bit more surprising given the Grisman reunion and the JGB shows seem to be a bit more focused than the GD ones, although you are probably correct that additional issues played a role in his ability to play between GD shows/tours as this point.

I regardless of whether Jerry preferred playing in one band or the other, i think the grind of the GD at the end was not good for his personal health.

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Feb 26, 2011 6:59pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Did Jerry Like The JGB Better Than The GD?

I wasn't really thinking of '75/76 when the Dead of course weren't playing, I was looking more at the '73-74 period, where Jerry keeps escalating his side-projects while the Dead start to wind down.

What I called "bizarre" was the question of, are there times when Jerry played more 'solo' shows and did that indicate a lesser interest in the GD? The numbers seem to show the opposite...

Those who say he should've cut back on the Dead tours in the '90s can see that he did reduce his touring from the mid-'80s onward....just not with the Dead.
The Dead, meanwhile, played about the same number of shows in the "mega" years as they did in the early Brent years (that was kind of a set quantity). The stadiums got bigger, but their touring didn't increase in the last 16 years.

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Feb 27, 2011 12:25pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Did Jerry Like The JGB Better Than The GD?

I guess i was including '74 in the "mid-seventies" equation since the number of GD shows is significantly lower than the previous two years. I agree that '73 is a bit of an anomaly the way you present it. However maybe the presentation is the problem. Maybe its '72 that is the real anomaly. Jerry had left the New Riders and spent two months in Europe as well as a month preparing for the trip and another recovering, so the solo band opportunities may have been quite limited that particular year. I suspect that in '70-71 because of the NRPS shows, the numbers might look more like '73 and '74.

In the end, i guess the conclusion is that Jerry's desire and/or physical ability to play shows was not really different for the GD or solo projects and that at arguably his peak of creativity with the GD he was also at his peak for activity outside the dead.

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Feb 27, 2011 2:49pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Did Jerry Like The JGB Better Than The GD?

I don't really count the NRPS...most of their shows in '70/71 were played with the Dead anyway (and Mickey & Bob Weir also played in the band), so they were not that "separate" from the Dead when Jerry played with them.

I do think Jerry participated in a lot of Matrix jam sessions in '69-71 that have been lost to time, so it's hard to say just how much outside playing he was doing then.

The 55 shows in '72 is very low, yes...the Dead tour of Europe (and other tours) definitely got in the way! So there were many months when Jerry's solo-activity was diminished... He was just as desperate for 'outside' work as he was in '73, though, and a whole post could be written about the lengths he went to sometimes just to play a little show somewhere.
For instance, he played Philadelphia with the Dead on 9/21/72, flew back to CA to play a show in Berkeley with Saunders on 9/22, then flew back east to play the 9/23 Waterbury CT show! He did that kind of thing in-between Dead shows often in '70 and '71, as well...

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffNoiseCollector Date: Feb 27, 2011 7:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Did Jerry Like The JGB Better Than The GD?

Jerry did too many GD covers.

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Feb 26, 2011 9:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Did Jerry Like The JGB Better Than The GD?

As I recall, Scully wrote that JGB tours were in part a quick way to get more drug money; not that he didn't enjoy them musically, but that was one dynamic at work in scheduling shows. John Kahn was also his partner in heroin use, right? With that in mind, it's interesting how many JGB tours there are in the early 80s, when his habit was escalating. Not counting '80, but then, there were all those acoustic shows that year ... very much a Jerry thing.

(Of course, tons of side work in early 70s, too, but from what I've read Jerry was just constantly wanting to play at that time -- somewhat different dynamics.)

I'm not very familiar with JGB at all, but it's still struck me that '90s JGB has a more "alive" Jerry energy than '90s GD. So maybe the fact that he played with them LESS actually meant he enjoyed it more when he was playing. Who knows ...

IMO, not only should they have taken a break in the 90s, but imagine if they'd done a bunch of acoustic shows. Could have been really refreshing and revitalizing. Just look at the 9/24/94 "Phil and Friends"!

This post was modified by AltheaRose on 2011-02-27 05:07:31

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Poster: hamptoneffect Date: Feb 28, 2011 1:40pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Did Jerry Like The JGB Better Than The GD?

Regardless what anyone says about trying to get drug money or not, the guy loved to play...as Merle Saunders said after his death when asked about Jerry's addiction, "I only know he was addicted to pickin' " That about sums it up I think...He loved to play and it showed...If i were Jerry I'da played as many JGB shows as i could, name an artist in a headline band that wouldn't go out and tour his own name. Also, there was a time during my run of shows when I'd go to the bathroom during bobby songs, going to JGB meant all Jerry all the time...NOTHIN WRONG WITH THAT

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Feb 27, 2011 12:32am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Did Jerry Like The JGB Better Than The GD?

There is the theory that the heavy JGB touring of the early '80s was basically for drug money...especially the acoustic shows, since Garcia & Kahn got to split the pay between themselves rather than paying the rest of the band.

Anyway, by the '90s another reason for the reduced JGB tours was that the Dead organization was not happy with Jerry going out with the JGB so much... By that time Jerry had a lot of demands on him and more financial 'business' to take care of with the Dead. But people in the Dead also felt that he was sticking with drug-buddy Kahn & undermining his health when he needed longer breaks, etc.
(Several of them thought Kahn was keeping Jerry on drugs.)

Garcia would announce that the Dead were burnt-out and needed a few months off to rehearse, and then right after a Dead tour he'd go off on a JGB tour...
Of course, to Jerry, a JGB tour WAS the break from a Dead tour. After all, nothing short of a coma would stop him from playing more shows!
I'm sure he felt a lot more personal freedom in the JGB shows - he got to pick all the songs, play all the solos he wanted, everything went the way he wanted, and it was a much more laid-back scene (backstage as well). So playing with the JGB wasn't as tiring for him as doing Dead shows. But it seems his collaborations with Grisman were what excited him the most in the '90s.

By the '90s Jerry definitely felt in a rut with the Dead, and aside from his illnesses may have felt only sporadically engaged with them. Studio rehearsals of their new songs went nowhere due to his lack of interest.

In '91 he said: "We've been running on inertia for quite a long time. Insofar as we have a huge overhead, and we have a lot of people that we're responsible for who work for us...we're reluctant to do anything to disturb that. We don't want to take people's livelihoods away. But...in order to keep doing it, it has to be fun... We're getting a little burned out...so we have to figure out how we are going to make this fun for ourselves... We need a little bit of time to fall back and collect ourselves and rehearse...and come up with some new material. We're aiming for six months off the road...we're all talking about it... We know we need to make some changes."

Of course that never happened; every year the stadium tours were faithfully booked. There's the famous story:
"He wanted to take a break; it was very clear... There was one meeting where they were talking about the stadium tour of '91, and he stopped everybody and said, 'Am I the only one who thinks that stadium shows suck? I don't ever want to play in another stadium. Does anyone else feel the way I feel?' And nobody said anything. But they were trapped: big overhead, big family, dates reserved - who's gonna say, 'Yeah, you're right, let's cancel the stadium tour'?"

John Kahn said:
"I think our band was a refuge for him. The Grateful Dead was so big and took so much of his energy, I think he enjoyed having a place where maybe not so much was demanded of him and he could relax a little but still play music he loved. I think he was a little disillusioned with how big the Dead became, but it's hard to turn that kind of situation around."
[on canceling a JGB show] "He would never ditch a gig in a million years... The Grateful Dead hated me. I'd think they would have liked that we canceled the show for his health...but they should have done that a lot of times in the past. He played Dead gigs where he had to piss in a garbage can on the side of the stage, he was so sick. But they'd never cancel a gig for him."
"Our band was all but finished by the end. We were working very little; he basically wasn't allowed to work with us. That's the impression I got. We were going to do a tour in the fall but it got canceled before it even got booked because Parish and all the Dead people didn't think he should go out with us... It was like he lost interest...our band was headed nowhere. We weren't rehearsing at all, we weren't learning any new songs. He stopped caring, or something...I think he wanted out."

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Poster: Capt. Cook Date: Feb 27, 2011 1:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Did Jerry Like The JGB Better Than The GD?

Miles Davis in his autobio talks about taking the cash from his gigs in the 50's and driving around the streets of Newark and Harlem looking to score heroin for him and his band each night. The cash flow was a great incentive to perform and the drugs were always available. Charlie Parker and so many others did the same thing. The stories of Jerry having wads of cash stuffed uner the seat of his BMW are of course legendary and have grown to myth status! And Jerry mostly gave his best songs to the GD. Reuben and Cherise performed only 4 times is I think the best of his solo stuff and should have been in the regular GD rotation. Mission In The Rain is another that I wish stuck around...

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Poster: jmb1 Date: Feb 28, 2011 7:37am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Did Jerry Like The JGB Better Than The GD?

yes

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Poster: bkidwell Date: Feb 26, 2011 11:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Did Jerry Like The JGB Better Than The GD?

I read an interview where Jerry described the JGB as "his version" of the music. It was pretty clear he regarded the JGB as more fun for him personally in some ways, but he also thought it was not as important and significant. He recognized that a lot of the power of the GD was in the elements of strangeness and quasi-ugliness. I recall him saying "the Grateful Dead doesn't care whether we like it or not" while discussing the band. The way the band seemed to have a will of its own, different from that of any individual member, is one of the things he liked about it. He said it wouldn't be as interesting to him if the GD had always done things the way he would prefer personally.

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Poster: snori Date: Feb 28, 2011 7:17am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Did Jerry Like The JGB Better Than The GD?

I don't know the source of this quote “Seeing The Grateful Dead was like going to the circus, going to see the Jerry Garcia Band was like going to church.” but I've seen it a few times. It has a ring of truth to it and not just for the gospel influences.

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Poster: derf315 Date: Feb 27, 2011 12:45pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Did Jerry Like The JGB Better Than The GD?

Let's not forget the fact that he was playing bigger venues from 89 on. Sure he still played the Warfield but he was also filling places like Shoreline,The Kaiser, Hampton, MSG and East Rutherford. All those were sold out for the Dead and he did less with more so to speak. Also gone were the days of 3 and 4 song sets in small 1000 seat or so clubs in the dark years of 82-86.

So he played longer shows for bigger audiences which may have helped cut down on the volume of shows he was doing with JGB.

This post was modified by derf315 on 2011-02-27 20:45:22